When Mandy's voice breaks recounting the night her brother's life was brutally snatched away by gun violence, it's a poignant reminder that the stories we share are more than mere words—they're windows into the deepest parts of our human experience. Join us as Mandy bravely opens up about the void left in the wake of her brother's death, and how a community found unity in their collective heartache. We navigate the turbulent emotions that ripple through friends, family, and strangers alike, each grappling with the loss and the touching legacy Chris left behind. This conversation is a raw look at the threads of connection that bind us, the strength we draw from each other, and the resilience required to move forward.
In the face of tragedy, it's often the decisions made in the darkest hours that illuminate the enduring spirit of hope. Mandy recounts the family's journey through the night Chris was shot, their agonizing hours in the hospital, and the unanimous decision to donate his organs—an act that became a beacon of hope for another family amidst their own despair. This episode doesn't just speak to the grief that accompanies loss; it highlights the powerful, transformative potential of organ donation and the community's role in supporting those who grieve. We uncover the beauty in selfless acts that reach beyond one's own life, weaving a legacy that transcends death.
Grief is a deeply personal journey, and the path to healing is seldom straight. In sharing my own struggles with bereavement, I aim to foster a sense of solidarity with listeners navigating similar challenges. This episode also delves into the tender process of guiding children through grief, honoring Mandy's brother's memory in a way that embraces his spirit as a protective presence in their lives. We discuss the importance of keeping those we've lost present through stories, symbols, and the courageous act of organ donation. There's solace in shared narratives, and through this conversation, we hope to offer comfort and understanding to all who have faced the anguish of saying goodbye.
When Mandy's voice breaks recounting the night her brother's life was brutally snatched away by gun violence, it's a poignant reminder that the stories we share are more than mere words—they're windows into the deepest parts of our human experience. Join us as Mandy bravely opens up about the void left in the wake of her brother's death, and how a community found unity in their collective heartache. We navigate the turbulent emotions that ripple through friends, family, and strangers alike, each grappling with the loss and the touching legacy Chris left behind. This conversation is a raw look at the threads of connection that bind us, the strength we draw from each other, and the resilience required to move forward.
In the face of tragedy, it's often the decisions made in the darkest hours that illuminate the enduring spirit of hope. Mandy recounts the family's journey through the night Chris was shot, their agonizing hours in the hospital, and the unanimous decision to donate his organs—an act that became a beacon of hope for another family amidst their own despair. This episode doesn't just speak to the grief that accompanies loss; it highlights the powerful, transformative potential of organ donation and the community's role in supporting those who grieve. We uncover the beauty in selfless acts that reach beyond one's own life, weaving a legacy that transcends death.
Grief is a deeply personal journey, and the path to healing is seldom straight. In sharing my own struggles with bereavement, I aim to foster a sense of solidarity with listeners navigating similar challenges. This episode also delves into the tender process of guiding children through grief, honoring Mandy's brother's memory in a way that embraces his spirit as a protective presence in their lives. We discuss the importance of keeping those we've lost present through stories, symbols, and the courageous act of organ donation. There's solace in shared narratives, and through this conversation, we hope to offer comfort and understanding to all who have faced the anguish of saying goodbye.
Welcome to Grief Sucks Life After Loss. I am your host, Linda, and today I'm here with Mandy. Welcome, Mandy.
Speaker 2:Hi, linda, how are you?
Speaker 1:Good, how are you?
Speaker 2:Good, good, glad to be here. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Thanks, for I've been wanting to have you on here for a while and you're just busy.
Speaker 2:I know Schedules, man, I'm telling you, you know, kids, keep you busy, work, all of the things that are going on in life. Right, you know, kids keep you busy work, all of the things that are going on in life, right and um, jamaica, oh my gosh. Yes, jamaica, but it was for work. It's only there for like two days, but still it was jamaica so he was in jamaica yeah it was.
Speaker 1:It was like 90 degrees there, you know like 20 degrees here, so I can't complain too much yeah and how cool is it that you guys get to bring people from jamaica to work at the Girl Scouts. That is awesome, I know I love it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm so excited about this upcoming summer bringing our international staff program back and bringing that cultural portion of camp. That camp experience is really great for our campers, it's them, for our staff just everybody to learn from each other. I'm so excited.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's very exciting. So, instead of talking about work, we're going to talk about real life or other life, the downside of it, um. So if you would like to share your story, Sure, I'd love to Um.
Speaker 2:so in um 2017, I lost probably the most important person in my life and that was my brother. We truly were best friends. Um, there were. It was about five and a half years difference in between our ages but, uh, everybody said we were like twins because we really were together all the time. Um, you know, we ran around with the same people. It just was our lives were pretty intertwined with each other.
Speaker 2:So it was a pretty hard loss and, um, it was a really tragic loss as well because, unfortunately, um, he was shot and killed um, in his home. And so having to deal with that, you know that tragedy of, you know, one another shooting in Indianapolis, you know, and then two just tragically losing someone like that at 28 years old Just so many dynamics, so many feelings, you know, very unexpected. And there's trauma that comes just with being, you know, affected by gun violence. And then you know, and then there's trauma affected with, you know, losing someone that was young and Chris was one of those people that he literally never met, a stranger. And, you know, even at his funeral, we heard so many people say, you know, like he helps them in different ways, whether it be find a job. Um, he that he helped them. You know he's like hey, he literally gave me the shirt off his back, like I literally had nowhere to go, and he let me crash on his couch for a week so I wasn't sleeping in my car, just all kinds of things.
Speaker 2:Uh, my sister-in-law even told us um, afterwards. She said, you know, she was like I don't always feel great about myself sometimes, but she's like on your wedding day he walked me down the kind of person that he was, um, in making people just feel that way and just feeling good about themselves. And so, um, losing him definitely had a domino effect on so many people and I think a lot of people don't see that right. They don't see the fact that it's not just the parents and the siblings and the spouses that are the ones affected. I mean, there are people that they're connected with. You know you sit with them in the cafeteria at lunch every day you sit with. You know you just pass them in the hallway at work. Whatever that case is like you, just it just has a huge effect on so many people and the impact that.
Speaker 1:And when you see that domino effect, I'm sure you feel the same way I do. It feels like they truly left a legacy, like if you was ever. Like that's what you want out of life. Is you truly made a difference in people's life? And you, you hear people say you know you want to leave a legacy, but that that is it for me, like just to see the impact that they had on everybody's lives. A lot of people don't get to do that and it's very special.
Speaker 2:No, they don't, it is, it's extremely special. You know, I think about KJ, I think about the impact that he had on my life and all the memories that we had together, because I was lucky enough to know him and you know we went through a lot. He, you know he did some crazy dances on a boat with me once to sing some Girl Scouts songs.
Speaker 1:It was funny because I was. I was just telling Dylan last night, I mean it was. I said I got my podcast in the morning. He was like, oh, who's it with? I said my friend Mandy. I said, well, actually, you know, I met her, um, when your dad and I got together. She was dating Larry. He's like and y'all are still friends. I was like, well, yeah, like it's John's best friend, like we also like our friends and we're cool. He's like this is weird, I know, I know it's it's hard to believe.
Speaker 2:We're all still connected. We're all still you know, but it's. It's great. I mean, I think about the impact you know he had on me always. He was always down for good time, and so I love that.
Speaker 2:Except for the one time we lost the dogs. Oh, yeah, yeah, you know thinking about you, know a little bit about you know, Chris. You know our biggest fear was, you know, chris was. Chris was an uncle. He's also a dad um, his son was 10 months old when he died, um and so. And then he also had a stepdaughter who was four at the time. And how do you explain to children that the person that they loved and looked up to, that was their hero? Legit, he was my kid's hero. Uncle Chris was like you could not, you know, beat the ground that he walked on he, he walked on gold as far as they were concerned. And you know how do you explain that to them? You can't just come home and say, hey, somebody shot your uncle, you know, because then it's going to come back to, you know, bad dreams, Is the bad guy going to come and get me? You know, am I safe in my home? There's lots of trauma that can then be impacted with the kids and that's a whole different thing.
Speaker 2:Whole other thing Exactly. And how do you tell them that, like how do you approach them? And you know when they start asking questions, what happened, how, you know why is he not coming back? And you know my son, my youngest Mason, he was three at the time and he couldn't understand why he couldn't use my cell phone to call uncle Chris in heaven, because doesn't heaven have cell phones?
Speaker 1:right.
Speaker 2:Like he just could not like understand because Chris was here yesterday, so why is he not here today? Why can I not call him? I call him every day, um, so it was just um, you know. And so we're like how do, how do we do this? And one of the things that we were very, very fortunate with is that when we were in the hospital and they told us that he wasn't going to make it, we probably needed to have additional plans made. My mom, you know, being his next of kin, really she could have made all of the decisions, she could have decided everything, but she decided that that's not the way we were going to play this. It really was going to be a family affair and making every decision when it came to Chris and what his medical plan was going to be moving forward.
Speaker 2:And so I will never forget the night that he did go into the hospital and I got a call. It was literally three o'clock in the morning and I rolled over like half asleep and I'm like my mom's calling me. Why the heck is she calling me? Um, you know, but something told me go ahead and answer, and she was so calm on the other end. This is the part I'll never forget. She literally was so calm and she's like hey, I just wanted to let you know I'm on the way to the hospital. Your brother's really sick. Um, like, just don't call me when you get up in the morning, cause usually we talk every morning when we get up. She's like so, just don't call me because I might not have service, because I might be at the hospital. And I thought to myself I'm like mom, it's three o'clock in the morning, like I'm coming right Like somebody said just I'm coming.
Speaker 2:So I got up and I got my clothes on and out the door I went and I headed to the hospital and, um, so when I um got there, um, I literally parked my car and my phone rang again and it was my mom again. This time she was more panicked, I mean, she was like she's like where are you? Where are you, where are you? And I said I'm at the hospital. I just pulled into my parking spot. She said I need you to run as fast as you can. And I'm like okay.
Speaker 2:So I run to the emergency room and I told them I was there to see Chris and they, I told them I was there to see Chris and they said oh, your family's already here, follow us. And so they took us into a room and in that room there was my parents were there. My sister arrived right after I did. There was also like a clergy and a couple of police officers. And that's when they told us you know what had happened, that he'd been shot in the middle of the night and that you know he was still alive, he was still breathing on his own, and that they would take us back to see him. Well, of course, the only thing I could think of is I have to see it to believe it, like just get me there, right, like, just get me back there, let me see my brother.
Speaker 2:If he knows I'm here, everything will be okay. And so I remember walking those hallways and feeling like it literally was like three miles long. I literally felt like we turned left and left and right and right, and just like it was like so far away. Um, and I don't know how people found out, but literally within an hour we had so many people at the hospital, so many people, and they just kept coming and, um, they moved us up to an ICU room and they had told us that day they're like we've never seen this many people here. We literally were taking up two giant ICU rooms and like waiting rooms and they were having to find another place to put us and like just more and more people kept coming.
Speaker 2:And so it was a little after 1.30 or so in the afternoon and a doctor came out and she's like hey, I'd like to talk to mrs curry and my mom stood up. She's like I'm mrs curry. She's like I would like the family, you know, to join me in the room, um, so we can talk. Next steps. Um, and one of the things that they always did all day long is that they told you about all of the next steps, like the you know. Repeat to me what have you heard? What do you you know they wanted to make sure that no steps were missed, that you really were comprehending all the information they were giving.
Speaker 2:And so when my mom said that's me, I'm Mrs Curry and you know, they said we'd like you to join me in the room. My mom literally looked around at this group of people and she's like we're all family here, we're all coming, that coming.
Speaker 1:That's amazing.
Speaker 2:We literally it was like it and the doctor just kind of looked around like she wasn't sure what to say, Right? But she's like okay, and so this itty bitty hospital room, um, I'm telling you, over 40 people were literally as close as you could be um in this hospital room and the doctor kind of looked around, you know, not really knowing what to say, right now because I don't.
Speaker 2:I think she was a little overwhelmed with the amount of people and she's like you know what, before we start, and we start going through all of these things let's talk about, I just want to know all of you, how do you know Chris? Right, Like, tell me how you know Chris. And everybody took turns going around. Of course you heard the typical he's my grandson, my son, my brother, you know those kinds of things. But then you heard like people didn't say he was my friend. Literally they would say he's my brother from another mother, because that is how Chris saw his friends, Like they were family to him.
Speaker 2:And so just the number of people in that room that you know continued to say that and it just was pretty cool. And so the doctor asked my mom to repeat, you know everything that she had heard the whole day, what she knew so far and all that. And that's when she told us that chris was brain dead and that he wasn't going to come back, and so we needed to talk about next steps and, um, so we had agreed in our family meeting that morning that if chris did not pull through, that we were going to donate his organs, and so they brought the Indiana Donor Network in and they talked to us and come to find out. Thankfully he actually was already signed up to be an organ donor, which was absolutely amazing.
Speaker 2:So we knew that we were following his wish and what he wanted, Um, so they started the process with all of that, and um, Chris was actually um, they had three organs that they believe that um were viable. That was his lungs, his kidneys and his liver. Um, unfortunately, his lungs were not going to be able to make it because he caught pneumonia in the hospital, and so they didn't want to, um, you know, give that to someone else. And then also the time of transplant. They just didn't feel comfortable that the other person they'd be putting the other person at more risk. So they passed on the lungs. And then his kidneys. Um, they did put him on dialysis, but unfortunately they also had, um, you know, been infected as well. So they decided to pass on the kidneys, but his liver was still strong, and so he was able to give his liver to someone and help them live, which was in itself a miracle. So absolutely.
Speaker 2:That was awesome. Yeah, our family has been lucky.
Speaker 2:We actually have met his recipient, oh, you did so she doesn't live too far from us and she actually you know she had she has her own story but she'd given up on life. She needed a liver. She'd gotten a liver and then something happened and she wasn't going to be able to have the transplant, and so she said you know what I'm done? Living in a hospital, I'm packing my stuff, I'm going home, I'm out of here. Yeah, she tells us to hear her tell it. It was just like a TV show. She's like, literally, I was walking out the door and they said stop, we have a liver for you, we can make this happen.
Speaker 2:And it was Chris's Wow, yeah, and just yeah. As we talked to her, like the connections that she had and the commonalities that she had with our family, it was almost like Chris picked her right, like I'm going to help this person. There's so many connections to my family and that they love, and there's things that she does that I love too, and it just was one of those, you know, magical moments to be able to do that. And so for us, that was our focus for our kids. You know, come back to our kids. Like you know, how do you explain it? You know all of that.
Speaker 2:Okay, we're going to, we're changing this narrative. Now, chris is not a victim of gun violence. Chris is a real life superhero and back in 2017, you know that, like Avengers, they were huge. I mean they're still really big, but then they were really big. Um, so, to our kids, that meant Chris was a real life captain America. Right, like we have a story to tell them, we have something that we can focus on. Um, you know and and telling that, and so you know, through all of that, you know the grief was unbearable. I mean I won't lie Like. I mean it was like, okay, here's the story I'm going to tell my kid, but I'm still like unbearable grief, like I can't get out.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:I can't. Um, you know I'm not a good mom, I'm not being a good mom, you know. And my husband literally came in one day and said you need to get your butt out of bed, like our boys need you. Like you have got he goes. I know you can't get over this and I'm not asking you to do that, but our boys need you Like they need their mom, and I was, and I, that moment, I realized I have to do something right. Like I, I can't be living in this space because this is where I'm at. I'm living in this space. My best friend is gone and I just like, I literally felt like a piece of me was gone and I couldn't function. So I went to therapy and it didn't work. It didn't work.
Speaker 1:It wasn't for me either.
Speaker 2:I was like all I feel like I'm doing is I'm going in, I'm crying, You're telling me, I'm telling you my story, and then you're like okay, time's up, See you next week. Like I'm a person of action, I need some tangible like actions and like need you to tell me what to do. And so a friend of mine, um, and that I met through another company I was working for at the time. She was a life coach and she said you know what, Mandy, I'll be your life coach. Like let me help you, Let me do this for you, Um, and she's like but I'm going to be honest, I'm going to kick your ass.
Speaker 1:Like.
Speaker 2:I'm going to get your butt out of bed, like, I'm going to tell you what you're going to do and before you meet me the next time, you're going to do stuff. Right, and that was one of the best things that ever could have happened to me. And so, through that journey with her, I then we talked a little bit more and she's like tell me what you're passionate about, like, tell me about your brother, tell me about, like, what he was passionate about. And you know, and it kept coming down to the fact that the story I was telling my kids, right, like I'm telling my kids this story, but am I really believing it? Did it really have that big of an impact? Is it really that big of a deal? And so I just happened.
Speaker 2:Um, I went to the Indiana donor network website and there was a call out for advocates, for volunteers, to come out and advocate and to talk about your story, and you know to do this. And I said you know what? What the heck? I'll put my name in. It might not, it's probably not for me, but I'll see what it's about. So I did, and I went through a training and now here we are 2024. Um, I've been an advocate for years.
Speaker 2:They have um their aftercare program is beyond belief, Like the support they provided for our family, um, the events that they host for our kids. My kids go to donor hero camp every year, every summer. Um, they get to be around other kids that have lost somebody, who and they've been affected by organ donation. So they're with kids that understand the grief. You know, they host kid events throughout the year. They host family events for all of us. I go out and I tell Chris's story. We have a team that joins their 5K every single year and we go and we represent Chris and Chris's photo is in what they call their Garden of Hope area so people can remember all of those people.
Speaker 2:And then even even you know, taking it beyond that, I work for a nonprofit, I work for Girl Scouts and I was like, how can I bring these two amazing organizations together? How can I spread, you know, the education with kids and, you know, start it young so they understand the importance of organ and tissue donation? And so, with a partnership with Indiana Donor Network and Donate Life Indiana, we created a program kit during COVID. I literally had this crazy idea Nobody could come to camp, Camp was canceled and I'm like, what are we going to do. We got to do something. So we decided we're going to open up our camp properties. Let families come and have a good time. And so I called my friends at Donate Life and I said, hey, here's the deal. Like I've got to come up with activities. Do you guys want to partner with me? Do you want to do something?
Speaker 2:And they said we're all in, we're all in, so, together, we created a program kit that we handed out to families and it was conversation about organ tissue donation. They got to wear like scratched up glasses to understand what it was like to need a cordial transplant. They were breathing through straws to understand what it meant to be a lung recipient, like just all kinds of different activities. It was just, it was so cool. Fast forward a little bit and the next year it was actually our kit and our innovation was nominated for a national award amongst other organ donation organizations across the country and we won an award. That is amazing, just bringing that full circle. And no, isn't that so cool? Like it's so cool. And so and I come back and I'm like this is because of chris, right like I, I found my, I found my.
Speaker 2:Why? Like why was this? You know why? Why, chris right.
Speaker 2:Why did Chris have to die? And I come back to, even though I miss him tremendously, I I could not imagine my life without like I still can't imagine my life without him. Some days it still feels like the first day, but I'm like this is why the impact that his story has to spread to thousands that are going to continue to save thousands of lives, moving forward, like that's the why, yep, and that's the kind of person Chris was. It comes back to him, right, helping people.
Speaker 1:That's what he did, and so, um, yeah, it's just yeah, and it's crazy because, like I would have never started a podcast or um, anything like this, but I'm like there it's not talked about enough, um, and I think, you know, at the end of the day, we're all grieving something, which I mean in all different forms, but I just felt like there had to be a reason why there had to be something bigger to come out of it. So when I started this, I'm like there may be two people that listen, but if it helps one of them, then that's great, because that's that's the point and it is just trying to connect with others who have gone through the same things or, um, you know just how to heal in in a different way, other than being stuck where, um, I mean, I, I went through the period where I'm sure I wasn't a good mom. I thought I was doing the best I could, but did I do it right through grief, fucking who knows? We don't know. Um, we're just doing the best that we can through the situation and you know, sometimes you need that person that says, hey, get your ass out of bed, something has to be done, you can't stay there. I'm big on. You can be down, but you got to get back up. You can't fucking stay there because it just it does nobody any good, nope, and I love that. Um, chris is always there, like you know there's. Often I see your posts like happy heavenly birthday Chris for yesterday. But I just love the way that you guys honor him constantly and constantly talk about him, because I think that's another big thing in healing.
Speaker 1:I think some people just tuck it away and don't talk about it because they think if it's not there, they don't talk about it, they don't see it, they don't hear it, they don't have to deal with it. Um, but deep down that lingers and that doesn't help. And I that was our main thing was from the day he died we talked about KJ every day in general conversations, me and the kids and whatever. We never tucked that away and I think that gives you a freeing, just something freeing about. It just helps heal where some other people didn't do that and they are still struggling today. But I can honestly say that I think my kids and I are in a good space. Yeah, it's just. I mean everybody. Everybody deals with it differently, obviously, and I also think that you know, for some of us it comes easier to snap out of it and deal with reality and and things like that. And other people may not be able to, but hopefully maybe listening to something like this will help um be able to do that or getting the proper help Like a therapist didn't work for me.
Speaker 1:I went a few times and I'm like you probably have never lost anybody a day in your fucking life Like how can you help me? You're nice, but this ain't working out Um me. You're nice, but this ain't working out Um. Yeah, you don't know, you haven't been there, um.
Speaker 1:And then, like the life and grief coaches, I I'm big on those and mainly because in my healing I always have to do something, I have to be busy or whatnot. So during my healing I took a life coach course. Well, that helped me heal Um, I never did anything with it, but it helped me to help myself. And I think a lot of times that those people become those people because they've been through things, they've dealt with things, um, and they can better relate, they can better help than sometimes a therapist can, and some people love therapists and I'm not knocking that, but I I do think that the life coaches and such that's, that's their passion, um, not just a job yeah, great, absolutely well, and I think therapy does work for some people, right, like I think there's not a one size fits all for anybody.
Speaker 2:Like you have to find that thing that works for you. For me it wasn't therapy, it wasn't working. And you know, and I felt like, as Chris's big sister I'm the oldest of three, I'm the big sister, I'm responsible for my younger siblings. You know, here I am, I'm 40 years old now I still feel responsibility to take care of my little sister. She's 36 years old, she doesn't need me, but I feel responsible for that.
Speaker 2:And so when he died, then I felt like I had responsibility to take care of his son. I have responsibility to tell his story, to make sure that his son knows who his dad was and all of that. So I think that our journey has been a big portion of that is, as Finley grows up, what's he going to get to know about his dad? You know, how's he going to get to know him? Like, all of those things are important and hearing, having those stories come up, um, not only is it healing for all of us, but it's a story for somebody that's never going to get to know him, who is probably the most important person um that he could have in his life.
Speaker 2:You know should have in his life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. And how did you like, in the initial impact, how did you get the kids through? I mean, cause there was a lot of kids involved. Um, what was your main resource?
Speaker 2:Um, it, it. It wasn't easy. So at first it just was um, you know, uncle Chris went to heaven, like that was really the only thing we could come up with right now. Uncle Chris went to heaven when we had a firm understanding of exactly what he was able to donate. Then it was okay, let's focus on a superhero. Um, all of that, Um, my, my oldest.
Speaker 2:He's now 22 years old, so he was a teenager at the time. We did bring him along for the ride, we did allow him to know what happened. We gave him the choice if he wanted to come to the hospital and say goodbye before we did send him in to donate, and we let that be his decision. The others felt like we're too young to be able to make that decision or that it would cause, you know, more harm. So we opted to not allow that for them. As they've gotten older, some of them do know what has happened. You know, and we've had long conversations about it and we've asked them if you want to, you know, if you want to join groups or you want to talk about, you know, to somebody you want to. You know, we're more than happy to be able to find that support for you, because a lot of them were so young when it happened. It hasn't affected them necessarily in the same way.
Speaker 2:They still remember him, they still can remember his stories and they talk in a positive light about him and they always end it with you know, my uncle Chris is a superhero. He is, you know, he is my is a superhero. He is, you know, he is my hero. He is going to be a hero forever. You know, a lot of Chris's favorite movies have then, you know, become their favorite movies. A lot of his song, favorite songs have become their favorite songs. So you know, they listen to them or they watch those movies and like, well, let's watch this. You know, yesterday was my brother's birthday and my youngest was like let's listen to this song because uncle chris loved it, you know.
Speaker 2:And it's so everything is coming from a positive light. They're just so positive um, in that space, and you know we tell them like you need to be there for finn. You know you need to tell the stories and the memories that you remember because he's going to want to talk to you and he's not always going to listen to us.
Speaker 2:We're old people now, right, like they're not cool about him and so, um, you know, just keeping all that pictures are still up everywhere, like he will not, you know, be removed from that space, um, and you know, we talk about those times, we talk about the pictures, we go places and, um, you know, my mom's a firm believer and you find a penny and a dime, um, that means that they're there.
Speaker 2:And so I always find a shiny penny every trip I go on and I always say it's my brother that's with me, um, because he was pretty much my ride or die and crashed I don't know how many of my family vacations because he didn't have a family. So he's like I'm coming with you, um, and so I always say, oh, chris is here crashing the party again, um, but you know, we just try to keep the positive light and, just, you know, remind them that you know, chris is still here, he's watching over us. One thing he always said he always said I have your back, I got your back, no matter what, all the time, to everybody. And so we always tell our kids that we've got his back on earth, like he's got ours in heaven. And so we just got each other's back, and for a long time we even we had his dogs. We just got each other's back and for a long time we even we had his dogs.
Speaker 2:Um, he had two dogs, mercedes and gizmo, and so I couldn't take both because I already had two dogs of my own, and so I took gizmo, one of them. My sister took mercedes, and um, we just told, we told the kids we brought him along. We're like, look, uncle chris just needs us to watch his dogs for a little bit. You know he'd have our back. We got to have his and we're going to take care of him until Uncle Chris tells us that he can take him back.
Speaker 2:And so, even when we did end up having to put them down because they were older we just recently put them down in the last couple of years that you know we told him. Uncle Chris called and he said he's ready for them to come home and live with him again. And you know our kids have been able to accept that, it's all. Just, you know we were giving him back. And even with mercedes ashes, you know, we told the kids that we could go to it, we could go to uncle chris's grave and we could, you know, sprinkle some of her ashes on the grave. Um, so they really had that physicality of giving her back to him, like there was actually a visual. It wasn't just like it was happening, it was yeah it happened.
Speaker 2:So now it's real. You know, um, so we've done all of those things just to guide our kids along the way, and a lot of that's, you know, thanks to the aftercare team at the indiana gender network, because they are professionals and they help us guide us through that. When we're like we don't know what to do with our kids, they're asking us these questions. They're you know this is happening next like how, how do we deal with this next wave of grief? And they are there to support us and provide guidance. And here we are. You know it's 2024. He died in 2020, in 2017.
Speaker 1:That's amazing, because it's such. It's such a delicate space and you don't. Obviously, as parents, we have to teach them how to um. For my kids, it was their first major loss, Um, and we have to guide them and teach them how to get through that Um. For me it was not becoming the people that I had removed from our life, I guess, if that makes sense, and not turning to alcohol, not turning to drugs like all of that Um, because I've I had to teach my kids how, how to get through that. And again, if you fall, that's fine, but you have to get back up and you have to live life through that.
Speaker 1:My kids were older. Michaela was a senior in college, getting ready to graduate. My kids were older. Michaela was a senior in college, getting ready to graduate. Um, dylan was 13 and um. We let them at the hospital. I gave them the option you can go see him one last time. Um, that's totally. I totally left that up to both the kids, but I did let them know that that would probably be your last memory, because for me, that was my last memory of my grandfather and it was the worst shit ever. So Michaela chose to and Dylan chose not to, which was fine.
Speaker 1:When we did the funeral planning, we let the kids plan. Basically, both of them for Valerie and KJ was just like you know what. At the end of the day, whatever you guys want, we'll do it. So they were both involved in and both of those, and so I think not easy but easier with the older kids. But when it comes to the nephew, that was a little bit rougher and the hits just kept coming, so it wasn't just his uncle and his grandma. Then a couple of months later it was another grandma and then a couple of months later it was another grandpa and it was like fuck, do we? They just disappeared. Do we keep? Do we keep telling him like at what point do you? I mean, you know, cause he was little, he was like I think five and you're like what do you do with this? Because it just kept coming. So I think the way that you guys have handled it is fucking amazing and it's it's a great. You've made it a good experience for them. If one could make that a good experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. And I wish the other, I wish that you know when I think about like organ donation. I wish more families did consider it Right, because when you think about, not only are you do, you are saving someone and the importance of that somebody else needs that.
Speaker 2:it's going to allow someone else's loved one to live. But you know, being able to tell that story and to you know, keep that legacy alive and have that memory of them, you know, to continue that journey, I think is really important and I know not all families are lucky enough to have that and for us we were. We were able to take a tragedy and we were able to turn it into something positive and say, you know, hey, we're not going to, we're not going to. You know, dwindle on the fact that this is what happened to us, but how Chris helped someone else and just continues to do that every single day, with every time that we go out and talk about it, that's Chris spreading his message. Chris has just given us that gift to be able to spread that word. It's just, but it's our responsibility to continue to do that for him. So that's Chris's story, that's not my story. That's his story. He did this, not me.
Speaker 2:But, because of him. I have a heart on my, you know, on my driver's license. I have. You know, everybody in my family. My oldest got his driver's license. I have. You know, everybody in my family. My oldest got his driver's license. The very first thing he did when they said, do you want to be an organ donor?
Speaker 1:He could not wait to say yes?
Speaker 2:when he got his all because he knew that's what his uncle Chris did. He's what I want to do. So you know he really truly understood the meaning. It wasn't just a question to him, it was.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:I think that you know for us that that's, that's what we've held on to and that's what we've been able to live with, and I hope that more families can find peace, you know, by being able to do that with their loved ones.
Speaker 1:Do you think there's a stigma as to why people don't?
Speaker 2:Why they don't donate.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely I do. I think there's lots of reasons. There's lots of myths out there. You know they're not going to want my organs because I'm too old, not true? There's 80 year old people that have a you know, 20 year old liver. You know Actually I have to laugh that they even wanted my brother's liver. My brother was, you know, if he was going to be the best partier and keep up with the best of us, they all.
Speaker 2:The fact that this is liver and they want it of all things you know. But a lot of it is like I'm too old or hey, I'm, I'm sick, and so they won't want this, you know. But there's other things that you can give besides just your organs. Like your skin, like our skin helps burn victims. You know your eyes. They're like well, I wear glasses, Okay, but that's OK because there's all this technology, you know, with laser surgery and things that they can possibly repair and if you think about it, even if they give your eyes to someone else, they may not have ever seen anything. So if they get your eyes and they have to wear glasses, they're grateful because before they didn't see anything. So there are so many you know gifts that we can.
Speaker 2:I think there's just a misconception about you know what it is, or they think that I know a big one that I always hear is well, but then they're going to let me die in the hospital because they know that I'm an organ donor, so they're going to take my organ. That's not true. That's not true. They're not even going to consider any of that until you know it's time, and that's not what it's about. It is.
Speaker 2:You are the number one. If you're the one being treated like you are number one to them, they're going to treat you, they're going to do everything that they can to save you. Um, but if there's not a way to save you, like, what a great gift to be able to give to somebody else. Um, my brother always said it best, and you know we talked about organ donation a little bit before you know he had died anyway. Like he would joke about it and he'd be like, well, I don't need it when I leave, right, like I don't need it when I'm gone and so, you know, kind of have that mentality now that like, well, I mean, what are we going to do with it?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:We're gone, like let somebody else use it if they can use it, and um it. It's just another thing you know that you leave behind, but it has such a big impact and it keeps another family together to be able to hug their loved one another day. I can't hug Chris, but I think Chris every day because, um, janet, um his recipient, like she gets to hug her daughter. Now she gets to hug her husband every day, like they get to spend time together and, um, do those things. If it weren't for Chris, she wouldn't be here, she wouldn't get to do that, and then another family would have lost someone. So I just, um, yeah, there are stigmas around it, but I, I, I think it's just misconceptions and misunderstandings and um, but the benefits far outweigh anything else.
Speaker 1:But you were out here educating people to help the world be a better place. Every day, every day.
Speaker 2:I love it Every chance I get, I'm always out there talking about it. I love to tell Bruce's story. I love to tell you know how it did help. It is healing, um, and you know, just, you know, being able to honor him every year and, uh, you know, for all the things you know, his birthday was yesterday. We went to Hooters last night. He's gone to Hooters every year for his birthday since he was 16 years old and we don't break that tradition.
Speaker 1:So it's funny because I remember, like the first time you were going to speak and I remember you posted and you were so nervous and you're like I don't know if I can do this, but you are fucking rocking it, you are doing it.
Speaker 2:So now that's just second nature, right, it's just yeah, it just comes.
Speaker 2:You know we're going to talk about it and I just, you know, I talked to Chris out loud before I do every single one. I'm like Chris, be here with me, like, help me, do you proud brother. Um, you know, let, let me do this for you. So I'm going to tell your story again and you're going to save somebody else today. So if I can say, you know, if I can get one person to sign up um for the registry, and after I leave and talk like I've done my job, he saved another half.
Speaker 2:And so yeah, and you know a person, they can save so many lives like so many lives, just one person. So yeah, it has a huge, huge domino effect on so many people.
Speaker 1:Well, I appreciate you coming on and sharing Chris's story, because it is one that I do love watching and seeing you guys do, and continue, because it is such a it's a big impact on on the world. I mean, honestly, do you have any last things for our guests, or suggestions, or?
Speaker 2:You know I say hang in there, right, hang in there there, find out your why. I know it's hard, you know why they take your loved one, why, why, um, but you can, you can find, you know, you can find hope, um, I think that's. You know, that's the biggest thing for all of us is just finding hope. And you know what is your hope, what you know, what are you going to hold on to? How can you, how can you continue their legacy moving forward, so they aren't ever forgotten, they're always remembered. And you know it doesn't, it doesn't stop. You know, years later, I still cry. You know, I'm still going through grief.
Speaker 2:It's never going to go away. I'm never going to get over it. You know that's the big stigma here. Get over it. Never going to get over it. Sorry, but um, you know there's, yeah, hang in there, hang in there.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, we appreciate you being here and thank you everybody for listening and we will see you next time. Thanks, maybe.